High Achievers Get Stuck Too: ASCC Buckets
Being a high achiever does not mean you are never stuck.
Sometimes it means you are exceptionally good at staying productive while avoiding the one action that feels harder.
You answer emails. Rewrite the blog. Organize files. Research another tool. Clean the kitchen. Work ten hours.
From the outside, nobody would call you unmotivated.
But the phone call still has not been made.
I joined Bettina Sastoque on ASCC Buckets for a conversation about Brainspotting, procrastination, perfectionism, visibility, high-achiever patterns and what can happen when productive work becomes a substitute for the action that actually needs to happen.
This conversation predates my current SCAN framework, but it contains an early version of something that is central to my work today: getting more done does not necessarily tell us whether you are executing the right action.
High Achievers Can Be Very Good at Being Stuck
One of the strongest ideas in my conversation with Bettina was that being busy and being unstuck are not the same thing.
High achievers are particularly good at disguising the difference.
I described it as going 90 miles an hour in one direction because you cannot go 55 in the direction you actually need to go.
There is no lack of effort.
There may be an enormous amount of effort.
The useful question is where that effort is going.
“We’re going 90 miles an hour this way because we can’t go this way.”
Productive Procrastination Still Delays Execution
Later in the interview, Bettina asked what avoiding an uncomfortable feeling can look like in real life.
Business gives us an almost endless supply of respectable alternatives.
You need to make the phone call or do the outreach.
Instead, you do the dishes.
Or the laundry.
Or write another blog.
Or work on some other useful part of the business.
None of those things are inherently bad.
The problem is when they consistently replace an action you already identified as more important.
That is what I now call productive procrastination.
The activity is productive. The pattern is still avoidance.
The Exact Point of Avoidance Matters
This is why I am less interested in labeling someone a procrastinator than I am in finding the exact point where execution changes.
Maybe you can write the email but not send it.
Maybe you can record the video but never publish it.
Maybe you can have the sales conversation until somebody asks for the price.
Maybe you can build everyone else's website while yours remains unfinished.
Those distinctions tell us much more than saying, “I procrastinate.”
Procrastination describes what happened.
It does not tell us why.
One Client Was Working Harder Than the Business Required
I shared an example of a client in her first year of business who was on pace to make around $80,000.
She was Type A, driven and working six or seven days a week, often eight to ten hours a day.
Nobody looking at that schedule would have accused her of lacking work ethic.
The problem was that a significant amount of her effort was going into things that did not require her attention.
Once she was able to reduce some of that unnecessary work, she moved to a four-day workweek and finished the year at roughly $140,000.
More hours were not the answer.
Better-directed execution was.
Sometimes the Next-Level Action Feels Different
The interview also contains an example of a therapist who had recently opened her practice.
She knew she needed referrals.
She knew one obvious way to get them was to tell physicians and other professional contacts that she was open and accepting clients.
Yet she could not make herself do it.
After working on the specific resistance around telling people about the practice, she spoke with her physician that afternoon, called two other physicians and began contacting people she knew from a previous career.
The interesting part was not that she suddenly learned a better networking strategy.
She already knew what needed to happen.
Something was interrupting execution at the moment of visibility.
Not Every Uncomfortable Action Is a Block
My language around these problems has become more precise since this interview.
At the time, I was much quicker to use words such as emotional block, limiting belief or trauma.
Today I want to know more before making that conclusion.
Is the action specific?
Does the strategy make sense?
Does the method fit the person?
Is there a real practical reason the action has not happened?
Is the person simply inexperienced and understandably uncomfortable?
Or have we addressed those things and the same very specific action still stops?
Those are different problems.
They should not automatically get the same solution.
Where Brainspotting Fits
Most of my conversation with Bettina focuses on Brainspotting and what a session can look like.
We talk through noticing physical sensations, eye position, how I guide a session and examples from both business and personal situations.
Some of the explanations in this interview reflect how I described the process at that point in my work.
Today, Brainspotting is one tool inside a broader approach.
I do not want to use a block-resolution tool to solve a strategy problem.
First, identify the type of problem.
Then choose the tool.
The Pothole Analogy Stuck
Near the end of our conversation, Bettina described Brainspotting as rebuilding a damaged road.
I offered a slightly less dramatic version:
“We’re filling potholes.”
That led back to something I had experienced personally.
Before addressing my own business block, I remember sitting at my desk convinced there was something fundamentally wrong with me because I could not seem to make entrepreneurship work.
That experience eventually became part of the message people now associate with my work.
The problem may be specific.
The solution may be specific.
You do not need to turn a stuck action into a judgment about your entire ability to succeed.
In This Episode We Discuss
- What Brainspotting is and what a session can look like
- High achievers who stay busy while remaining selectively stuck
- Productive procrastination in business
- Outreach and visibility avoidance
- Perfectionism and unnecessary work
- A client who reduced her workweek while increasing revenue
- Recognizing sensations when an action feels difficult
- Why some actions feel disproportionately hard
- Jennie’s experience using Brainspotting around her own business
- Brainspotting and dental phobia
- How Jennie was using virtual Brainspotting sessions
- Why being stuck does not mean you are incapable
Watch the Full Episode
Watch my full conversation with Bettina Sastoque on ASCC Buckets: Brainspotting: The Therapy You’ve Never Heard Of That Could Change Your Life?
ASCC Buckets Episode Transcript
Prefer to read the conversation? The transcript is available below. It has been lightly cleaned for names, punctuation and obvious caption errors while preserving the substance and conversational language of the original interview.
Read the full episode transcript
0:17 Bettina: Have you ever felt like you're working hard but not seeing the results you dreamed of? You're not alone. Many entrepreneurs face challenges like self-doubt and the fear of taking risks.
Today we're diving into these very issues with Jennie Hays. Jennie is a remarkable individual whose background in paramedicine, coaching and entrepreneurship gives her a unique perspective.
Jennie is passionate about helping ambitious people break through these emotional barriers. So get ready to discover Brainspotting and how it can help people move toward the success they want.
0:55 Bettina: Brainspotting? I've never heard of this. Ever, ever, ever.
1:02 Jennie Hays: It is a relatively new approach. It was developed in 2003 by David Grand while he was working with a client using EMDR.
EMDR uses eye movement, and Brainspotting developed from an observation that certain eye positions seemed to connect with stronger activation.
We work with things such as imposter syndrome, fear around pricing, fear of being seen and self-doubt in business.
5:10 Jennie: These things can show up as imposter syndrome, money issues, insecurity, perfectionism and procrastination.
8:23 Jennie: One of my favorite examples was a therapist who had just opened her practice.
She desperately wanted to tell her doctor she needed clients. “I'm open. I need you to send me people.”
We had done several different mindset things, and this was right when I first learned Brainspotting.
I said, “Let's play.”
She had an appointment with her doctor that afternoon. Not only did she tell her doctor, she called two other doctors and had a list of about 25 people she knew from a previous career that she started contacting.
We found the point where she was resisting telling people.
Her realization was essentially, “It's uncomfortable. I'm just going to have to deal with it.”
That doesn't sound like a huge revelation, but it was a revelation to her because that discomfort had been stopping her.
10:11 Jennie: Even high achievers get stuck.
A lot of people think, “I'm not stuck. I'm a high achiever. I'm going 90 miles an hour.”
We're all stuck somewhere.
Sometimes we're going 90 miles an hour this way because we can't go this way.
If we could take the shortcut, we might be able to go 50 or 55 instead.
10:38 Jennie: I had another client who was set to make about $80,000 in her first year, which is exciting.
She was Type A, go, go, go.
She was spending time focusing on things she didn't need to be focusing on instead of the things that mattered more.
She was working six or seven days a week, eight or ten hours a day, and burning out really fast.
We did some Brainspotting and she figured out where she could remove things that weren't vital and allow herself some rest.
Not only did she shorten her week to four days, she cleared about $140,000 that year because she was able to focus where it mattered instead of all the perfectionism she had been wrapped up in.
18:17 Bettina: If you think about a session, is it 30 minutes, an hour, five hours, a day? How much are we investing into something like this?
18:26 Jennie: I usually like my first session to be 90 minutes because there's some education in the beginning about what this is going to look and feel like.
After that we can go shorter because you already know what you're doing and how to get into the process.
19:22 Jennie: People often come in for one issue and later decide they want to work on something completely different.
I've Brainspotted around my business, infertility, my relationship with my mother and things from my past.
20:24 Jennie: I used to have insane dental phobia.
I had to have somebody there holding my hand, and historically they had to put me under to work on my teeth.
I had an abscess and needed dental work while my husband was two hours away.
I went in thinking I could handle the exam, and then the dentist said they had time to do some of the work immediately.
My body was trying to run out the door.
I recognized what I was feeling, went through the process and was able to stay for the work.
I went back on my own for the rest of the dental work after that.
24:09 Jennie: When something happens, we experience it in our whole body.
Sitting in that chair, I had a negative sensation come over me.
Rather than doing what most people do, which is, “This doesn't feel good. I don't want to feel it. I'm going to ignore it or get away from it,” I recognized that I didn't like the feeling.
24:46 Bettina: What are some examples of how people get away from the feeling?
25:01 Jennie: In business, this is a classic one.
You need to make that phone call or do that outreach and you don't want to do it.
There's something in your gut that's just like, “Ugh, I don't want to.”
So you do dishes and laundry.
Or you write a blog.
You do the busy work instead of the work that's going to get you to that next level because the other action didn't feel good.
25:26 Bettina: So instead of doing that, sometimes what we should do is sit in it and experience it instead of letting ourselves off the hook by going and doing the other stuff.
25:51 Jennie: Sometimes just sitting in it, embracing it and feeling it is enough.
Some people can't do that. Sometimes it is too much, and that's when having somebody there to guide the process can matter.
29:35 Jennie: EMDR uses left-right movement. With Brainspotting, we're usually picking a particular spot and staying there while working with what comes up.
34:28 Jennie: I honestly believe this work has been life-changing for me and for many people I've encountered.
At the time of this interview, I offered a free Beyond Mindset Breakthrough conversation to make sure Brainspotting made sense for the person and what they were trying to address.
35:02 Bettina: So it isn't changing who you fundamentally are. It's helping with something that happened and bringing you back toward who you are rather than changing who you are?
35:27 Jennie: Right. It doesn't change who you fundamentally are.
38:25 Jennie: You've got to remember that you're not broken.
Before I did Brainspotting around my business, I sat there crying because I felt like I was broken.
It was like, “I can't do this. I can't run a business because there's something wrong with me.”
I did a session around my business, and now you see me here. I'm profitable. I'm talking to people. I'm doing the thing.
You're not broken. Sometimes it's more like a pothole that needs attention.
38:59 Bettina: I love that. Thank you, Jennie. I love your perspective. Thank you so much for being here today and for this conversation.
I'm excited for people to meet with you, learn more about Brainspotting and explore their own potholes as well.
Jennie: Thank you.
About Jennie Hays
Jennie Hays is an Execution Block Specialist, Brainspotting Practitioner and business coach for coaches, consultants and service-based entrepreneurs.
She helps capable people figure out why strategies they already understand are not consistently turning into action.
Her work distinguishes between a true execution block, a strategy that does not fit the person and a plan that is simply too vague or poorly structured to execute.
When an actual execution block is present, Jennie combines rapid block resolution and Brainspotting with practical business strategy and execution design to help clients return to clear, measurable action.
